Hello Andreas . . . this 'innovation' of inverting the four points in a JG treatment is completely new to me and I am fascinated. Please help me fit it into my larger picture understanding of my now expanded treatment options within the JG-SG system. So, up until now, in my clinical Saam practice, I had arranged in my mind a spectrum of actually five possible 'strengths of treatment' for the same 'imbalance'. I will use Lung just as an example here (of course, the question would apply to any of the 12 channels) . . . . Consider a case that was simple Lung Deficiency (dry on the inside, moist on the outside). I had in my mind a sequence of five 'strengths of treatment' for the case . . . . one sided JG (SP3+, LU9+, HT8-, LU10-), two sided JG, one sided SG (HT8+, LU10+, KID10-, LU5-), two sided SG and finally (and I have done it a few times!), one side JG and the other side SG. So I have always felt I had in my tool chest for such a simple case . . five options of strength and depending on the case, I would escalate the strength of treatment. (Side Note: I have come to feel clinically, but it is subtle . . that SG is not just more or stronger of JG but it is also different as well!). . . . . . so now!! you have added to the options to invert the treatments!!! . . and in our class your only example was inverting a JG treatment (for example, LU9,-SP3-, LU10+, HT8+ instead of SP3+,LU9+,HT8-,LU10-) but would it be correct to presume one could also invert a SG treatment? (for example, HT8-,LU10-,KID10+,LU5+ instead of HT+,LU10+,KID10-, LU5-) . . ooooph . . . now , instead of five treatment strength options, we have (if we include one sided and two sided), nine, and actually, even more options!! Any extra light you can shed on this would be greatly appreciated Andreas!! . . . simplistically, I can think of them as on a spectrum of increasing 'strength' . . . . unilateral JG, bilateral JG, unilateral JG inverted, bilateral JG inverted, unilateral SG, bilateral SG, unilateral SG inverted, bilateral SG inverted, one side JG and one side SG and so on!! But I would imagine , these are not JUST different in strength of treatment for the same pattern (Lung deficiency) but ALSO different in QUALITY (in terms of the kinds of moisture and where it is located . . sweat, edema, fat, phlegm, etc)! Right? Actually, when I look at the inversion approaches, if we consider a JG inversion as opposed to a SG for a case, the difference is interesting, . . in BOTH strategies, we are supplementing the controller (fire in the case of lung) but in the JG inversion, we are draining the mother (earth in the case of lung) while in the SG strategy, we are draining the child (water in the case of lung), so when choosing JG inversion versus SG for a case, the controlling relationship is treated the same but we are choosing to drain either the mother or the child. ooooooph . . its a LOT to consider . . . with time, I understand, it all becomes more clinically routine . but ANY help / insight / wisdom you can provide at this point to help us integrate these inversions of JG and SG into our toolchest of strategies for the 'same pattern' would be so appreciated! thank you Andreas!!
You are being very creative in your thinking!
In general you could do all these things modifying and changing points as long as they are within Five Element-Six Qi logic, I think. In my opinion before changing combos or even creating your own you should be very well versed in the basic theory and experienced in clinical practice. I reported you some of those variations that are well known in Kim, Hong-Gyeong's style and which I learned and used myself often. There are so many variations of methods in Korean Medicine in general and in specific also in Saam in Korea.
There is the Saam style of master Weol Oh. His speciality is to have quite a number of special fixed point combinations for specific clinical conditions. I learned a few of them and they are useful too. There is this style of Kim, Byung Soon (KOSA in the US) who much more focuses on warming and cooling combos and adding especially Fire points on the opposite side of the four point combos to address meridan based local conditions. It is also quite useful for some conditions in my experience. But this is just another topic.....
@bruechasiatische-medizin-com . . . do you have any general enlightenment on choosing between a JG inversion treatment of a channel versus an SG treatment of the opposing channel? It seems that would be a common choice to consider.
or put another way . . . . that idea of inverting a Jeong Gyeok of a channel treatment . . . as opposed to doing the Seung Gyeok of the opposing channel pair . . as an option . . I find it so very compelling, but I am , short of years of clinical trial and error . . . trying to grok any distinctions that might direct me clinically towards one or the other option . . .
@schulman81 , if we were running race, you would have already lapped me several times.
I appreciate your taking this idea and extending it. But I'm still having trouble wrapping my mind around how if you want to JG the Lung. Thus increasing its function. Then how does reducing the influence of the parent and increasing the reducing nature of the grandparent bring that about?
@bruechasiatische-medizin-com I remember in the class commenting that this inversion seemed like a SG treatment.
I think I'm missing something fundamental here in terms of understanding how the inversions work. Can you help me better understand this?
Ha . . yeah . . I got twisted up on that for a few moments . . you're actually correct . . . the inversion of a JG treatment is NOT an alternative JG . . . its more an alternative SG of the Lung . . . a JG treatment for Lung tonifies the mother (earth) and reduces the controller (fire) so that the Lung can flourish . . . . but an inversion of this . . . reducing the mother (earth) and tonifying the controller (fire) is really a modification of the SG of the Lung which would reduce the child (water) and tonify the controller (fire). . . . in both cases, the controller is tonified . . the difference lies in reducing the mother (less nourishment of excess Lung) versus reducing the child (more draining of the excess Lung). And of course, these are options to a JG on the Stomach . . . so if you had excess Lung, deficient Stomach . . you now have three options instead of two . . . . . . JG Stomach . . . SG Lung . . .or inverted JG Lung point combination
@schulman81 Ohhh..... ok, now I see it
So if I have patient with excessive GB headaches and a short temper. I could do an inversion of the GB JG, which would be:
UB66-, GB43-, GB44+, LI1+
Yes! as an alternative to the SG GB . . LI1+ GB44+ SI5- GB38- . . . notice two of the points are the same . . in both you are tonifying the controller . . its just that you are reducing the mother instead of the child
Wow, a very academic discussion. I never thought about this more, than just accepting the point combinations that were just transferred to me as "special combos". But it is worth speculating about it. I checked it with some point combos for different meridians. Indeed I would say it is more a variation of SG because two of the point for the reverse JG will be those used in SG logically. But to use it as a general system, we have to be aware it is completely breaking away from Five Element principle of tonifying and sedating. In that sense I personally would look at least what those non-promotion cycle points will do on an individual level of their Five Element effect logic. For example reverse Liv JG will be Liv8-, Kid10- and Liv4+, Lu8+. First two points in the controlling cycle reduce Wind according to promotion cycle, but are warming at the same time (reduce cold). Second two points will be (directly) drying. So instead of in general reducing Liver energy in case of Excess I would think the special effect of this combo will be warming and drying. So it might be good in cases of Cold and Dampness in the Liver. The question then is, do we usually or often have conditions with these kind of problems? Or for which extended Six Qi imbalance can we use it. We then would have to check this for all 12 meridians.
In the case of reverse Lu JG and reverse St JG we will clinically find quite often conditions that fit to that. So anybody wanting to create a whole new system for all 12 meridians, you might do this. Personally, I am at Michaels position, it is enough to get proficient with the already existing logic. The strengh of Saam is that is offers a (compared to TCM) quity straight and simple to apply systematic. If you now add another 12 (reverse JG) or even 24 (add reverse SG) new standard point combination we will have 72 (12 JG, 12 SG, 12 reverse JG, 12 reverse SG, 12 HG and 12 YG) combos. This means a confusing number of options. At the end there will be no more advantage of this system. Plus you will not really need this extended system, because if you play piano with Saam acupucture like a pro you can freely use Five Element-Six Qi logic anway. No need for more basic fixed combinations.
Just my opinion...
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